The Construction Cogs Podcast
Each person in construction is a cog in the ever-moving machine.
The Construction Cogs Podcast is a construction and engineering podcast that speaks to those cogs, from workers and specialists to contractors, leaders, and business owners, to explore careers, site life, safety, technology, infrastructure, and what really keeps the industry moving.
The Construction Cogs Podcast
Renée Breen - Apprentice in Naval Architecture
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A ship can look rock solid and still be one bad weight shift away from trouble. We’re joined by Rene, a level 4 apprentice naval architect, to make vessel stability feel real, human, and surprisingly relatable, from heel and GM values to the unglamorous truth of tracking every kilo during a refit. If you’ve ever wondered what naval architecture actually involves, or how ships get safely repurposed and sent back to sea, this conversation gives you a clear starting point.
We also talk apprenticeships in the UK. Rene walks us through the competitive application stages, the aptitude-style tests you can’t really revise for, and the pressure of A-level results.
Her biggest insight is simple. Employers often look past imperfect grades when your attitude, curiosity, and determination are obvious. Along the way, we dig into apprenticeships versus university debt, how progression can work from HNC to degree routes, and why “hard work over talent” shows up in real hiring decisions.
Then it gets personal. Rene moved from Liverpool to Plymouth for the role, leaving a close family network and building a new life from scratch. We discuss what it’s like being one of very few women in engineering, how odd comments can wear you down, and why reporting harassment is not “making a fuss”, it’s protecting people. She also shares the value of industrial placements, learning on the tools, and having a mentor who actually takes time to teach.
If you enjoy honest career stories, engineering problem-solving, and practical lessons that cross over into construction and infrastructure, you’ll get loads from this. Subscribe for more, share this with someone weighing an apprenticeship, and leave us a review with your biggest takeaway.
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Cold Open: Fit In And Speak Up
SPEAKER_01You know, I had a couple of things where like people were like making the other weird comments and you're like, oh, but my manager always said to me like, you know, if you don't ever get anything and you anyone makes you feel uncomfortable, just report it because it's not okay. And like, so when I did first first start, I was a bit overwhelmed because I've never used a grinder in my life. And I'm not the strongest of people, I don't have a lot of body strength. And when you've got to do overhead grind in that particular, like your arms like start shaking and it's not. I was very lucky because um the group that I was in, I was I would do the group of applications and there was this one guy called Dave, and I will remember them for that. He was so supportive, and I got a lot of that support. So I actually had a little package and just like oh I was like, oh, I think out on my own tape was about 150 inch and only. So it was definitely a difficult decision to make because obviously I sat to find my family and friends. So I actually came out with a C in French and a day in both maths and physics A level, which I was bothered about because I thought, oh well, that's it then. I'm not getting the apprenticeship. But I found the company and I I basically told them my situation because it was just waiting on my grade, and then they came back and they they said we'll let you know, and they actually offered me the apprenticeship. I think they're more bothered about it's not so much obviously it's good to have qualifications and you know you need to be intelligent to a degree, but people care more about who you are as a person and your job and your determination and if you look eager.
Meet Rene And Naval Architecture
SPEAKER_02Cool thanks, Jim. We're ready here now, mate.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the Construction Cogs Podcast, showing you the moving cogs of the construction machine. Hello all. We have something a little different today. Rene doesn't work in the construction sector per se, but being an apprentice naval architect, she does help construct things that are a vital part of the world's infrastructure. Rene, thanks so much for joining us.
SPEAKER_01Thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00It's an absolute pleasure. Understandably, we had to jump through some hoops to get you on here, but I think it was worth doing that today.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, so the reasons I invited you are, No, one, I'm really f fascinated about what you do. I think it's so cool. Um I'm I'm a big fan of apprenticeships, so I want to promote that while learning about your journey at the same time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And also, I'd like to inspire, or I'd like this to inspire people to take the leap and push themselves out of their comfort zones, not just young people either.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so let's start. Let's start with um because people some people might not know what naval architecture is, so it's time for you to take the floor. I I understand we can't go into too much detail, but tell us about yourself and and what you do.
SPEAKER_01So um I am an apprentice naval architect doing a level four, so HNC in naval architecture. I'm currently in my second year um of my apprenticeship, and so so far I've learned quite a lot about the industry and got a bloody bee on my head.
SPEAKER_00Sorry.
SPEAKER_01Where did that come from?
SPEAKER_00So sorry, carry on.
SPEAKER_01It's all right. Um so naval architecture is basically the it comes under a lot of things, so it's all about stability of vessels and designing and um maintaining and manufacturing vessels. So a lot of what I do is uh based around stability. So we basically refit um old like vessels that have come in and need to go out um back to sea because they're going to be used again, repurposed. So um there's a a lot that comes into that. We have to monitor every bit of weight that goes on and off the ship because there's literally the littlest bit of weight movement could massively impact the stability of the vessel. Um we need to we we have like a spreadsheet that we use to monitor this. So we call them uh SSTs, safety stability tools. And uh it basically um it's called heel when a boat kind of like tips to like the port or starboard, and that happens when a weight is like moved ever so slightly, or you have water tanks which are maybe not in proportion, um, and that massively impacts the GM, which is basically a value that determines the stability of the vessel. So I um I've learned quite a lot so far. I've still got quite a lot to learn, um, just because I'm still in my second year of my apprenticeship, but I think it is definitely fascinating and it's not something that I ever thought that I would be doing because originally I did um decide that I wanted to do architecture in university, which is a lot different from naval architecture, although it it kind of got a little bit of similarities to do with like the math and the problem solving. Um when I applied for university and I went to like an open day, I found that the courses it was more like design-based, and I'm not really like an artsy person, I'm more of like a maths problem solver, and like that's what I'm interested in. Um so my godfather actually suggested apprenticeships because I knew of apprenticeships, of course, but I always like told I always got told that they were like gold dust, like they were very, very rare and very hard to get, and um they're very competitive. Um, so hence why I didn't really apply for many. I I applied for university and and that was that was it really, but I thought, you know what, what have I got to lose? So I applied anyway. I think I applied for about 10 or 12, and I only heard back from one of them, which is the one I've got now. So um yeah, it it's difficult though because there's a lot of elimination processes. I think for the one I have, there's four stages. So you go through through the application and then you have to do like a test. Um, which I when I was doing, I I didn't understand one thing, but I apparently I did all right because I've got this far. Um then we had to do an interview where we presented like a project or something um relating to engineering that we've worked on. So I selected a um a part of an engine because my dad's a mechanic, so that worked quite well because he could help me with that.
SPEAKER_00Um but yeah, yeah, wicked, yeah. So that's mad. So you so you literally have no experience with with boats or anything like that prior prior to this. So did you have any interest in them? Because I know like because obviously you're from Liverpool. Uh Liverpool's got a fake famous dock, the the roll Albert dock. So uh is there a bit of an affinity there with shipping?
SPEAKER_01So I've never actually took an interest in in boats before applying for this. Right. It was it was more of like the work that I I kind of took an interest to. So the balance between the architecture side, the problem solving, and the maths, that's something that I was really interested in. And as I've begun to work with ships, it's it's very interesting. We've just done an an inclining experiment as part of like my my college work, uh, where we basically it was like um like a a small vessel in a water tank, and uh, we had to like uh move weights around and see how that affects like stability and heal and stuff, and I found that really interesting because literally like the smallest thing can go wrong and it can cause like catastrophes, so everything has gotta be so precise, so accurate, and there's there's a lot that goes into it.
Apprenticeship Tests And Real Grades
SPEAKER_00Um what did the um you did the test to get in? I was gonna ask about this, the process. So I imagine you did like an interview, was it, and all that sort of stuff, but what was it what was the actual test that you had to do?
SPEAKER_01So the test, it was um analysing data, I want to say. So I did a level maths in sixth form, and a part of that is statistics, and it was never my strong point. I hated statistics. Um so part of that test was analysing data. So you got like loads of like numbers, and it was like a multi-choice, and you had to pick which one you thought that the if that fit into the data, which I really didn't understand, but it's just a lot of numbers basically. Um a lot of um I guess you could say problem solving is involved in those tests as well. So it's kind of determining like how you view things, what kind what do you actually see that like maybe some other people might not pick up on? Um but yeah, I the test is not something to worry about, it's not particularly anything that you can revise for, it's just one of them where like you know you've either got that side of like the brain or like you don't, and either way, it's alright because everyone's got their own strengths, haven't they?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Did you do a lot of guessing?
SPEAKER_01Oh yes, mostly. I think it was 90% guessing, and I think only about a couple of them I thought, oh like this was an obvious answer. But as you get on to the test, like the further you go along, the harder and more complex the questions become.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, it was obviously meant to be. If you've guessed your way through it, it was also meant to happen. Um did you have to have any qualifications prior or like to be able to apply?
SPEAKER_01Yes, so um after I had gone through all like the elimination processes, if you will. So I'd done the test, the interview, um, just my application. The last part of it was I needed two grade C's A level, so one could be in like a math subject and one like a more sciencey subject. So I did maths, physics, and French A level, which I was highly advised not to do by my teachers, but just as a way of like, you know, wanting me to excel and do the best that I can do, because I'm not naturally like intelligent, I've got to work and work and work for like to get to a certain point, whereas other people in my class they were just like machines, like they just know, whereas it took me a lot longer to get there, which is why my teachers said, like, these subjects aren't for you, like I I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't take them, I'd drop them, you'd excel and other subjects, but I knew that I needed these subjects to unlock so many doors, and I'm so glad that I did. I ended up not getting the grades that I wanted. Uh we got hit with um a really complex physics paper as well, to the point where my physics teacher was actually contemplating switching exam boards after that, it was ridiculous. Um, so I actually came out with a C in French and a D in both maths and physics A level, which I was gutted about because I thought, oh well, that's it then. I'm not getting the apprenticeship. Um, but I phoned the company and I I basically told them my situation because it was just waiting on my grades. And um, they came back and they they said we'll we'll let you know, and they actually offered me the apprenticeship. I think they're more bothered about it's not so much obviously it's good to have qualifications and you know you need to be intelligent to a degree, but people care more about who you are as a person and your drive and your determination. And if you look eager to do something, that that is a massive contributing factor. Like that's what people want. They want people who will excel and they want to ask questions and interests and things, like that is what companies are looking for with apprentices.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, absolutely, and I don't think just with apprentices. My wife's a perfect example of this. Like, our our kids are pretty much grown up now, so she didn't work for donkeys years, she had a really good job, so she was really nervous about getting back into work, right? She wanted to get into teaching, she had no experience with teaching, no qualifications, and she went into these interviews, and there were people who are far more qualified than her, but they picked her because of her, so she she sold herself, her personality. Um, she basically said, Look, I've got nothing to give you apart from me. And I was like, Well, that's enough, you know what I mean. And also with the talent side of it, um, I think um it's that I was saying, isn't it, of of hard work over talent? People will rather pick hard work over talent because talented people can be lazy and not put 100% in. But if you if you if you're putting effort in, you you can surpass them in most areas anyway, which is what you've done, obviously. Yeah, yeah, so well done. Nice one.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Um so was it a difficult decision at the time to go in?
SPEAKER_01Definitely a hundred percent, because obviously I'm from Liverpool. My apprenticeship is based in Plymouth, and I'm not gonna lie, my geography is not the best. So I actually applied for the apprenticeship and I said to me, Mum, Mum, where's Plymouth? And she was like, Oh, it's at the bottom of the country. I was like, Oh, okay. Uh so when I actually got offered the job, I was like, it kind of hit me like, oh god, I'm gonna have to move away. And that's not really heard of with apprenticeships. People don't really move away, it's it's not like common in apprenticeship. So I think out of my intake, there's about 150-ish, and only six of us that I know have actually moved away for the apprenticeship. Um, so it was definitely a difficult decision to make because obviously I sacrificed my family, my friends, and I, if you know me, I am so close to my family and my friends. We literally live in each other's pockets, we see each other most days. Me and my mum are literally best mates. So moving to a place by myself that I'd never even heard of, it was definitely difficult, and I think it's changed me in a lot of ways. But I think if people are reluctant to move away because of like myself, like your your relationship with your families and your friends, I definitely encourage you to just take the leap and do it. Because if it's a case of like you don't have many opportunities in your area, but there is elsewhere, I think it's a risk worth taking because you can always go back, you know, like no matter how far away from your from your family, you know, you've got FaceTime, which is obviously not the same, but I have my family visiting me like every like month, I'd say, and then I go home when I can. But it's it's changed me in a lot of ways. I've definitely matured and I've realized how important family is, and that support, like yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, great. Great, yeah. Well, obviously, I mean, like you say, they don't really do it much for apprenticeships. Obviously, people move away for to go to university, but that's that's different because that's not like a a work environment as such, like what you're doing. Yeah, so yeah, I can imagine it must have been really hard. Did you get did you get any support from the company in that respect?
SPEAKER_01So we actually my mum kind of knew of like the head of logistics, so we kind of communicated with her with regards to accommodation and everything. Because when I applied for the apprenticeship, I just kind of assumed that accommodation would be like provided by the company, but it actually wasn't. So we had it there wasn't a great deal of support with finding a place to live and you know getting to know the area, but I feel like that's because it's not it's not really heard of, it's not really heard of people moving away, like so. It just kind of assumes that people are from the area. Um, so we kind of went through the head of logistics and she kind of suggested some some companies, um, like housing companies. So I'm in um a student house at the moment, so it's like a a big shared house for uni students, uh, and it's quite comfortable. I've been here for two years now. I've got a bath, I've got my own bathroom, so it's it's lovely.
SPEAKER_00Um, but you know, sorry to interrupt, you know what though? It's those little things like I've I've worked away uh up to up I'm from down south, obviously, I've worked in Manchester, and it's one really important thing for me because I I spent two days looking for the accommodation of different places for digs, and you get a lot of places that have shared bathrooms, and one thing I had to have was my own bathroom. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's just that those little things that really matter. So you can have a nice non-negotiable. Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't want to share another bathroom with anyone else.
SPEAKER_00Are your lifting operations properly planned, properly assessed, and properly checked? I'm talking about risk assessments, lift plans, audits. These things help keep lifting operations safe and under control before problems arise. That's one of the reasons why I provide APs and assessments. I help companies put the right planning and control measures in place before the lift even begins and then maintain throughout. So if you need help with risk assessments, audit or lift plans, I can point you in the right direction. Head over to constructioncogs.com forward slash AP-services. Or get in touch with me directly at info at constructioncogs.com. Stay safe. Oh, I I know we're a bit sensitive about information, but are you allowed to say who you're working for, the employer?
SPEAKER_01Um I work for a nuclear defence company.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Okay, down in Plymouth.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So that's enough said. So when you finish the apprenticeship, is there a certain amount of years or something that you have to stay working with them?
SPEAKER_01So with the apprenticeship, because my qualification is HNC.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Typically, um after the the the four years per se, I I don't have to stay on, but if I wanted to do a degree, so the HNC is like you it goes HNC foundation degree degree. So some departments in the company will allow you to stay on and do a degree. So the the department that I'm working in, uh which is the docking and stability team, they um do offer opportunities to stay on for the full degree. So if you do do that, um then when you finish your degree, I think you have to stay for an additional three years within the company and just to fill out loyalties and stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, yeah, brilliant, brilliant. Well, I think it's great. I think I don't think um I don't think there are enough apprenticeships out there to be fair. Um it it particularly obviously I'm in the construction industry, we've got a skills shortage, so I think that needs to be filled, and apprenticeships is one big way of doing that, and also um I'm not a big fan of uni any way. I've got mixed feelings about it, let's put it that way, particularly because of like major debt that people can get into, which is you know quite debilitating. So this is like hands-on experience, and it just gives people that bit of a chance, a bit of a leg up in those early days of your life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely, and you're getting the experience as well as the learning because my dad always encouraged me not to go to university and go for apprenticeships, and because you you know you're getting paid while you're learning, so you're avoiding that debt automatically, aren't you?
Apprenticeships Versus University Debt
SPEAKER_00Exactly, exactly. What have you um what have you found hardest so far?
SPEAKER_01So I think a a few aspects of that is obviously moving to a place where I don't know anyone because I am I'm a very family-oriented person. I love my friends, I love my family, and I'm a people person, so I love being around people and having that familiar familiarity. I can't say that very nice. Familiar Okay, I'm just gonna use a different word support network anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01Um but um yeah, just just having that support network around me. So moving down here and not having anyone and having to start from scratch, I feel like sometimes I'm living a double life, like I've got a life in Liverpool and a life in Plymouth. Another aspect of that is like I have I've got like quite a few friends back at home, girls and boys, but mainly girls, and I'm always around like my girl mates. So moving down here, it was a lot of boys, like a lot. Uh I think out of the 150 apprentices, um there was about 10 girls, I want to say-ish. But they're all in different departments. So in the actual engineering kind of sector, I think there's only about four or five, maybe, but I don't see any of them. So obviously I knew moving down that it was going to be male-dominated, you know, like it's a male-dominated field, field, and I've always kind of gone on with boys anyway. I've got a brother, well, I'm quite close to my brother, so um, that's never really been an issue. But when you've got to kind of, you know, adapt, and you've they've got a different kind of sense of humour and a different level of banter, and you've got to kind of like adapt to that. Um, but I was actually with um, there was a girl at the beginning of the apprenticeship. She was the same age as me, roughly the same school yeah. Um, she moved from Crawley, which is near London.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So unfortunately, we we lost her a a couple months ago. She went back home after about well, a year of the apprenticeship. She just wasn't feeling it, which is fair enough. I think she's not used to being around that many, that many men, and it was quite overwhelming.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I think I've I've adapted in a way where, you know, like sometimes I find them easier to get to be mates with and get along with because you know, if they want to say something, they just say it to your face, and it's it's just squash, it's it's easy. But I have found myself like sometimes I feel like I act a bit more boisterous because I'm around with boy like boys all the time, but I've got like a really good kind of friendship group now, and they're very like supportive and friendly, and I'm very, very grateful for that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good, yeah. It's a is a it's a funny one, it's a funny dynamic. I think um I mean I've I've got a daughter and I know that girls can be really bitchy, yeah. So being around a load of girls can be honestly like she to comes home sometimes, it's just like I've just had enough of it, I've just had enough of school, had enough all overnight, I just don't want to see anyone because it can be really you lot, sorry, but you can be really, really horrible people. I know, and and you're right, men, we just like it's it's just we're just so simple, really. It's just like honestly, it's just so simple up there, and it's like you're right, if we if you if you want to say something, we'll just say it. But on the other side, being in that sort of environment, I mean I'm I'm on a construction site all the time, so I see that when a woman comes on site, it's like oh all the next are craneing, you know what I mean? People are making comments and all that sort of stuff, so there's that aspect that you probably have to deal with as well, which can't be easy.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I do. Yeah, I think even the first year in college, because it was only me and one other girl in this class, and every time like we walked in, they were just like like they've never seen a woman before.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and when I joined the dockyard, obviously, like I I'm quite petite girl, like I'm quite young, um, I'm scouse, which probably um gives them another thing to take yourself, yep.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I started on my industrial placements, and obviously that that is all men. So I found like when I was walking around, you know, you do get people like, oh my god, like but um I think the way people do deal with it nowadays, like the the managers are really good about it. So my it's it's taken very, very seriously now in comp like companies are really like trying to just do the best that they can do, and you know, they offer so many training courses and awareness, like sexual harassment in the workplace. It you know, it's it's an issue that they are really tackling.
SPEAKER_02Good.
SPEAKER_01Because I, you know, I had a couple of things where like people were like making the odd weird comments, and you're like, Oh, um, but my manager always said to me, like, you know, if you do ever get anything and you anyone makes you feel uncomfortable, just report it because it's not okay, and like that reminder that it is not okay and it's not normal, and you shouldn't just laugh it off. Like, people are just taking it like seriously, which I think is something that needs to be done because you know it can, especially me, because you know, I'm not from here. This is like a strange place, well, not a strange place, but to me, because I've not grown up around here, I don't really know it that well, and kind of being thrown in the deep end, it it is overwhelming, and to a lot of people that can be the one thing that like tips them over the edge and will make them leave. Um but I think because like you know it's my second year and I've kind of I've developed thicker skin. I was just kind of like, oh yeah, whatever. But um it it's it's still a thing, like it's as a woman in a men's and in a man's world, obviously you're gonna get like head turns and whatever, but I think it needs to be normalized. Like we need to get like more women in the sector of like engineering and construction because it just needs to be normalised. Like, you know, I wouldn't bat an eyelid if if I was you know in an office and a mom a man walked in, like you know, it it's it needs needs to be normalised.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, and I and I think it on in the construction side of it, they're they're doing a lot of work on that, they are really encouraging more women to to to get into it, but uh there does need to be more acceptance to make it more attractive for women to get into it because, like you say, you've already you've already had one person leave there because it was too much, so that's what that's what happens, unfortunately. Um, but it's good that your company are hot on it, uh, and it's good that you can report that. And and it's important that we do talk about this because um it's important for those people out there that are doing inappropriate things to be able to watch this and learn and know that what they're doing isn't right, and it's also important for uh for young women, not even just women, anyone, um to be able to know that it's not right and just don't just not to just brush it off as no, oh, it's just what happens, like and you can talk to people and report it. So, yeah, it's good. I think you've been really brave. But um you you say you you was on you've been on the frigate and you was doing like the industrial side of it, so I imagine there were some older guys there that probably took you under your wing a little their wing a little bit and helped you.
SPEAKER_01Oh yes, definitely. Um, I first started on um the boat back in September. It was my first it was my industrial placement. So as part of your apprenticeship, you do an industrial placement for about six months, and which I think is really beneficial because you get you get that exposure and you get that experience and um you're actually learning like hands-on. So when you do go into the office and you are like overseeing it a little bit, and you know, you're you're giving them the kind the jobs and the advice and stuff, you know, like, oh, I won't put that there because that'll get in the way of this, and like you've you've got that experience. So when I did first first start, I was a bit overwhelmed because I've never used a grinder in my life, you know. I've never done inserts, I've never cut metal by myself. I'm like, oh my god. Uh and I'm not the the strongest of people, I don't have a lot of upper body strength. And when you've got to do overhead grinding, that is a killer. Like your arms like just start shaking, it's not nice. But I was very lucky because um the group that I was in, I was I was with a group of fabricators, and there was this one guy called Dave, and I will remember him forever. He is so he was so supportive, and I've got a lot of respect for him because he's in his 60s, you know, uh as everyone struggles, like um at points in their life with like you know, physically, he was having problems with his knees and stuff, and he was still coming to work every day, climbing up 10 ladders and back down and up and down. And I'm just like, wow, like I couldn't, I wouldn't have like the mental capacity to do with that, and he's doing it every day, and he's not even like batting an eyelid. Like, he was walking around the boat like limping, and I was like, I do have a lot of respect for the resilience that he had, and he he was very supportive with me, he he took me under his wing a lot. Um I think the attitudes with apprentices in the kind of industrial world is like, oh, they're just like a burden. Like no one can be bothered with apprentices, they are just like a burden. Um, but I think I kind of changed his mind with that because he had time for me and he wanted me to do well. And same with my manager, my manager would like take the time out of his day and like you know, show me things for my next placement and be like, okay, well, you're gonna be doing this, so you'll need to know this. So I was equipped with the knowledge and things, and yeah, I I did find some really, really friendly people, and I was so lucky that the group of fabricators that I was with were so friendly and so patient because that's their work, like they're working on this boat, so it can go back out to sea and you know be repurposed. And when I'm working on it, obviously, you know, I'm not to the same level as they are because they've been doing it for years and working with different like people of different ages, everyone's got like their own way of doing things and different techniques that I did pick up on. And I think it's very important that people do have that patience with you, especially as an apprentice, because you do already feel a bit of a burden.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is really important because at the end of the day, it's all about passing on um in anything, really. Everyone's got to start somewhere, and it's all about passing on, passing on your knowledge and passing on your experience to to other people, in not just in work but in life anyway, as well. And um just take taking a bit of responsibility, it's about taking responsibility for yourself and other people. So if they see you're struggling with something, you know, it's down to them to be able to help you out, really, and you know, just see if you're doing something wrong. So that's really good. And um, I mean, I've had the same, I've I've had a Dave as well. When I first started on the cranes, I had a Dave, big Dave, he's 60, and um he's really, really close. And yeah, showed me all the ropes and how to deal with things and how to deal with people. So you do need someone like that to to kind of latch onto, really, I suppose, and yeah, and absorb absorb everything.
SPEAKER_01Everyone needs a Dave.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, is he big Dave? Mine's a big Dave. Is yours a big Dave?
SPEAKER_01He was tall, right? So I think I guess it was big Dave, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good, good. I imagine um was it so was that your favourite thing that you've done so far then? That that um that labour.
SPEAKER_01You know what? I'm not gonna lie, when I first got thrown into it, I was like, oh my god, I am counting down the days till I have to leave. Because like um, you know, I've always wanted to be in a nice office with my nice little outfits on and just like at my little desk. I've never thought I'd be like fixing a ship. But you know what? I I did really b begin to enjoy it. It's like the people that you know you're around, they're so like you know, they're supportive, and they've got you know, it the funny, and you build really good relationships there, and you know, it's nice to have like familiar faces every day, and you are doing something different every day, which is what I really liked about that work. So one day I was doing inserts, another day I was like tapping like holes on like the ship, another day I was moving big fire baskets onto pallets, so it the the work varied, and that's something that I did enjoy. And I've I've developed skills I've never thought I'd ever develop or even like touch on. So I've been using like grinders, hammers, bears, drills, you name it. I've I've used it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's really important because a lot of these people um that design these things and run projects, they they've never picked a tool up in their life, so they don't actually know what goes into it. Yeah. So it's yeah, so you so you you're you're sort of getting the best of both worlds and you know the actual process that goes into what it is that you're designing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
Refitting Ships Like A Garage
SPEAKER_00Which is good. So uh what I wanted to ask as well is so you said that you you don't you sort of refurb ship, so you don't actually build anything from scratch.
SPEAKER_01No, so um within the dockyard in in Plymouth, it's basically like think of it like a garage for boats.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Re refurb them, fix them, and then send them back out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um so yeah, that that's what that's what we do really. It can take anywhere like different projects that either scrapped or sold or just refurbished. Um, so I think the project that I'm on has been going on for a good few years now. Um, the one that was on the industrial one. But yeah, there's a lot that goes into it, like a lot, like it's stripped down, and then you look at it stripped down and you're like, oh my god, I can't see how how this is a boat. And then you go on one that's finished, and you're like, oh, this is what it'll look like. This is like the final result, and it's nice because some of the fabricators that are on the boat that I was on for my industrial placement, they've been there from the very beginning. So when it came in, and they'll be there when it goes out. So they've seen like the whole project and like they've worked on it, and they can say, like, oh, I I did that, and it's yeah, it's nice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sense of pride. Yeah, I like that. I like that. Yeah, I do like that. So I imagine there's loads of cranes that are needed, that'll be right up my street.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let's try and get a job down there. Yeah, yeah. Tell us a fun fact, tell us a fun fact about the design of a vessel or the building of one that no one would ever think about. Are you a red card cleaner? A red card clinger, you could driver driver. Whatever if you do construction, I commit people like you whether it's your Q with the next people in your career. Whether you're still fixing, wait, sir, Carler, quick cloud, if we do your management, I've got a fixer, talk to you on your way. You can call me on 01544-329-369. Or email info at constructionholes.com. Or if you're an employer, I'm employed. We're gonna pull it on our assessment, and we've organised funding for your staff assessment with your pay at the ICD levy. I'll let you in on a little secret. My main assessor has a superpower of slight OCD attendancy, giving him a keen eye for detail, making it very prompt and reliable. For more information, check out constructioncooks.com forward slash MVQs. Stay safe, I'm proud of you.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that's a very good question. The design of a vessel. I think well, something that I've never thought about is a hull shape.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01So you know um where a boat goes like that, I know that's a really bad description, but like a hull shape that can massively impact like the stability, and it can also impact like features like how how the boat moves, if it's purposed to be a fast, slow cargo ship. That this that one design of the hull can just impact so many different factors. So, say if you want like a cargo ship, you're gonna have a big, like wide, strong hull. If you want like a boat that goes quicker for like around the world racing yacht, you're gonna have different features. So that's something to bear in mind that I've never actually thought really matters. I'm just like, oh, a boat's about whatever. But now I'm actually working in it, I'm like, okay, yeah, like that that impacts this, this, and this. And a really important factor of it is like I didn't realise how much weights like on board can impact stability. So it literally, if you have one weight on like the port and you move it slightly to starboard, that could capsize the boat. And I find that fascinating, like how precise everything's gotta be.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it's interesting. Funnily enough, I watched a video last night before I went to bed about trains. So, you know, like on train lines, you get all the stones around the track. That's called ballast, and there's like what they're like, why is this called ballast? And it goes back to the shipping days. So back in the day, they used to fill the the boats with stone to weight it properly, to weigh it down so that it doesn't lean back or lean to one side. So yeah, there you go. You've just confirmed that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I imagine so do you know how many how many shipwrecks do you reckon there are out there? How many do you think how many boats you think there are in the bottom of the sea?
SPEAKER_01Oh, loads. I can't even I can tell ya.
SPEAKER_00Estimated at three million.
SPEAKER_01Three million.
SPEAKER_00Three three million boats under the water that right now, yeah. The oldest one, the oldest shipwreck is is uh that DOCOS believed to have sunk in four and a half thousand years ago. There you go. Bit of uh bit of uh bit of fun fact for yourself. Uh uh are there any fail safes? So the modern technology now, are there any fail safes for uh stopping ships from from sinking?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so um there are uh quite a few aspects. One that I know of is you know, if um the the ship is slightly healing, they've got tanks that they can just pump salt water in or f fresh water in, but obviously when you're at sea, it's easier to pump salt water in, and that kind of like brings her back, like so she's got no heal. Um, so that's one of them, and obviously moving weights kind of, but that moving weight just comes under under the water tanks, so the ballast tanks that's what they're called. Yeah, um so they just pump water in and out of them. But a lot of it is like um, so sometimes you get obviously three million boats at the bottom of the the ocean is crazy, but you get some like um catastrophes, like I think I believe it was called the Herald of Free Enterprise, where the the ship left dock with the bell door open and it floods the whole the deck. I think it was by something like three millimetres or three inches, something like that, and it literally just went.
SPEAKER_00Just straight away it just went, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so you've gotta have a lot of kind of you know monitoring everything and the communications. Yeah, there's a lot that goes into even on Doch on a boat.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I bet there was some slap risk over that one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
Goals And Career Advice
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well we're almost done. We're gonna close with a couple of things. What what's the ultimate goal?
SPEAKER_01As myself, like as an apprentice.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, in your career.
SPEAKER_01So my ultimate goal would be just to learn as much as I possibly can and get enough experience and as just you know, gain as much knowledge as I possibly can during my apprenticeship to take into what I decide to do next. I'm kind of taking each step as it comes at the moment, and I'm gonna see where I am at the end of my apprenticeship and decide where I want to go from there. But as it stands now, I want to just be exposed to as much as possible. So keep asking for work if I'm not really busy, keep cracking on with other things. And I think having that exposure and having that knowledge is is so important to the industry. And I think having that experience on the industrial placement has helped me massively in my career, and now I'm in my permanent placements, which is up in the office, and I'll move around within those that placements to different kinds of parts, and I just think embracing everything that you do, even if you didn't enjoy it, just try and embrace it as best as you can. And as an apprentice, some of the things that you do in your apprenticeship you're not going to do again. So you need to make the most of it, and you know, you've got that experience under your belt, so just make the most of it and just yeah, that's it really.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good, good. Yeah, so I mean, so you are in your office now, you are in your offices with your nice clothes that you that yeah got what you wanted.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, what advice would you give to someone considering this path in?
SPEAKER_01So I would just I would just say just be kind of open to anything. Don't expect it to be easy because it's not gonna be. If you're going into a field in the construction industry or like the engineering or you know, nuclear defence or anything like that, you need to be really open-minded about everything, about the people you're gonna meet. You're gonna meet all different types of people, and you need to be just like open to that, and you're gonna do different things, you're gonna be exposed to different things, but just be open-minded and just throw yourself into everything and just make sure that you have the best experience that you can possibly have as an apprentice.
SPEAKER_00Good advice. I like that. I like that. Do you have much to do down there in Plymouth? Do it. Is there a nightlife to go out or anything?
SPEAKER_01I mean, there's a nightlife, but it's not like Liverpool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I do, I mean, we we go out, me and my friend group, maybe like twice a month or something, and there's the beaches down in Cornwall are gorgeous. We don't get them in Liverpool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01We've got a couple beaches in Liverpool that are quite nice, but in Cornwall they are gorgeous. I actually went yesterday after work with my friends, it was lovely.
Quick-Fire Questions And Plymouth Life
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I can yeah, I can vouch for that. I love Cornwall. Beautiful place, beautiful. Right, so we've got a couple more things now. So I normally do some nonsense questions, just some bit of fun, some random questions, yeah, a bit of um sort of nothing serious, just to think of anything, yeah. So first one, if a ship could have a personality, what type would yours have?
SPEAKER_01If a ship could have a personality, what type would mine have? Personality. I I'm gonna go with confidence because I think as a ship you need to, you know, you need to be strong and you have to be stable and you've gotta you know take everything or like all like the waves and all like everything that you're gonna come across, you need to just face them head on. So I'm gonna go with that.
SPEAKER_00Okay, good one. Spreadsheet or spanner?
SPEAKER_01Spanner.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay, fair enough, fair enough. You can't have spanners in the office, so that's no good.
SPEAKER_01No, I just love using spanners, I love them, especially ratchet spanners, they're so fun, I love it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, fair play, fair play. Right, this one, obviously, I know that you You're you're Everton, yeah?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I'm Liverpool. So if you were given a free season ticket at Everton but had to sit with the away crowd at the Liverpool games while wearing a Liverpool shirt, would you do it?
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_00No. Really?
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_00Fair enough, fair enough. I've had to do it once. Well, I'm not so I went to a I went to a City Liverpool game because I was working on the Etihad, and um someone actually gave me a ticket because I had a season ticket, but I had to sit in the away end with her. Um and then she's like, just please just sit on your hands, don't get excited. I was like, Yeah, I'm just gonna shut up. She said, you know, don't shout on nothing like that. I don't need any grief. And we beat them 2-0, but I had to just like hold myself.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, contain yourself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um what would you change about yourself?
SPEAKER_01I would say confidence massively because I think I'm very I'm very hard on myself in everything that I do. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so I like to make sure that everything is done to the best of my ability. And sometimes in my new placements, I've been exposed to a lot of new things like technologies, like spreadsheets, Excel, AutoCAD, everything. And when I make mistakes, I get annoyed at myself and I get frustrated. But you shouldn't do that, especially as an apprentice, you're learning something new every day, and in every placement you're gonna go into within your apprenticeship, you're learning new things, so don't beat yourself up about you know, knock out things straight away.
SPEAKER_00I'm not sure that's a confidence issue. I think that's a that's a pride issue, and a per that's that's having pride in yourself. That's not really a bad thing, and it's a perfectionism, but you're right, because you know that can that can kind of hold you back a little bit, that perfectionism. So it is okay to make mistakes, that's how you learn at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00You've been confident enough to go down there all the way down to the other end of the country and sit work with a load of geezers and and and not know anything about the industry. So, you know, that's pretty confident and that's brave.
SPEAKER_01I think it's it's definitely where it's it's helped me confident since I've moved because I I don't think I was very, very confident back in Liverpool, but I think I've I've I've definitely developed on that since I've moved.
Construction Realities And Closing
SPEAKER_00Good. Yeah, good. These things do do this. Nice. So lastly, I asked you to think of a question to ask me at the end. Have you thought of anything?
SPEAKER_01Yes. So what do you think is the most difficult thing about being in the construction industry?
SPEAKER_00Well, that's subjective, really. So it depends on the individual. Um, for some people it might be working away. That that that's that's hard because some like a lot of the because for me, a lot of the your work is down in London, so you get a lot of northerners who have to come down and stay away in London. That's not easy being away from the family and that sort of stuff. Um, but what's the most difficult thing? I can't say the most difficult thing. The hours can be really, really hard, so it can be some really, really long days thrown at you last minute. That's quite difficult. The met the mental health factor that comes into as well, because it's the um it's the industry with the highest suicide rate, which is thought so for public for those combined reasons. So, yeah, there's that uh there's loads of things really. You get a lot of politics down to deadlines, pressure, um accountability, that sort of stuff. So, yeah, I hope that's an answer question and sort of give you loads of answers there. But I think they're all important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and definitely they're they are all important. And do you think, like, with that with that all in mind, do you think you know it it is worth you know experience and being exposed to all those different things? Are you like, do you have any regrets about your career?
SPEAKER_00I don't think I do no. Um no, I I I was I went to college and I was going to be a graphic designer. That was what I wanted to be. I wanted to be in an office as a graphic designer, but I soon realised office work wasn't for me. I wanted to be outside. Uh sometimes I wish I did um probably concentrate more at college and stuff like that because I had a long hard path in construction, but I don't regret where I am now. I think um it's given me a lot of opportunities, and I've met some great people, have a good laugh with everyone. I like the camaraderie. Um, you know, you can take the piece out of yourself and take the piece out of everybody else, and that's good. Yeah. Um, the physical aspect is good as well, being outside and getting physical exercise. So I don't regret it, but I think there needs to be more help and more support for people, and the money side that can be difficult. Some some, you know, obviously there are a lot of well-plaid jobs in paid jobs in construction, but there are some not so well paid, so you get people who are struggling, but they're doing this really difficult work, um, working all the hours and not really benefit from it. So that's where it can affect people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I definitely agree with that because my partner was a bricklayer, right? Um apprentice, and he was rained off quite a lot, obviously, in the winter, and he'd get paid nothing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that was very difficult for money.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there you go. So that's it. That's that it does really affect people. It's really, really, really hard. And um the economy's done now, anyway, at the moment. So, as you know, everything's gone up, all the all the costs of everything's gone up. So a lot of the wages hasn't gone up to meet it because the companies can't afford to pay it. So it's really hard at the moment, it is. Um, which I think is why we've got a little bit of a skill shortage, uh, because it's not an attractive place at the moment, but hopefully we'll get there. We'll get there. But you know, that's why um it's good to get in some some niche um areas like what you've done. It's a bit different.
SPEAKER_01Yes, definitely it is very different to what I thought I'd be doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good. And you've got no regrets?
SPEAKER_01I I don't know. Like, I I could say oh leaving me family, but I think it's it's found me a new appreciation for that.
SPEAKER_00Good, nice. Well, well done. That's it for me. Thank you so much. I think you've done really well and you've given a lot of insights about what you've done and the industry as a whole. Thanks for your time.
SPEAKER_01Thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00It's an absolute pleasure. Take care.
SPEAKER_01You too, thank you.